From: composer2@juno.com
To:  jco@usfca.edu
 Date:  Sat, 1 Nov 1997 00:30:43 -0500
Subject: Academic Writers & Halloween!

All university writers, that is, good popular authors, inevitably end up
writing something about or relating to the collegiate setting, and it
appears throughout their work, either blatantly or shaded in allegory. 
This is especially true of JCO -- I mean, ZOMBIE, THEM, and a host of
others center in some way around a college campus.  Other writers
"guilty" of this are: Stuart Dybek (Western Michigan U); Reynolds Price
(Duke); Stephen Dobyns (Syracuse); Pinckney Benedict (Princeton; Hope);
Jane Smiley (Iowa); to name just a few.  These are all writers who teach
AND make a career of writing.  I thought this was an interesting
observation, sparked by Cyrano's mention of student/professor relations.

Warm regards for a "Happy Halloween"--
DAVID

p.s. -  How many people will costume themselves as the serial monster
from ZOMBIE this season?  Or do we all already wear that mask??? 
Oooo......



Date:  Sat, 1 Nov 97 10:36:49 CST
From:  "Frank Malgesini" fmalgesi@uachih.uach.mx
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject:   Re: Academic Writers & Halloween!

In reference to the comment about writers in universities using the 
university in their writing, the principal example in Oates works, of 
course, is the satire, Unholy Loves, which although it may not be among 
Oates` most important works is certainly one of the funniest. For me it 
also included some of the most memorable characters and incidents from 
among her contemporary novels. I think it must also have been entertaining 
to write.

Frank Malgesini 
Facultad de Filosofia y Letras
Universidad Autonoma de Chihuahua



From:  Cyranomish@aol.com
Date:  Sat, 1 Nov 1997 17:06:06 -0500 (EST)
 To:  jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:  Re: Academic Writers & Halloween!

Hi, Frank.  Of course the university setting goes way back in Oates's works.
 "Archways" in UPON THE SWEEPING FLOOD is an early one, and in THEM there is
a humorous scene of university faculty sitting around a tavern during the
1967 Detroit riots plotting revolution; Jules meets a "Professor Piercy," who
may be a sly reference to Marge Piercy, who also hails from Michigan -- Ann
Arbor for grad school and, I think, Detroit before that.  And let's not
forget that mid-1970s story collection HUNGRY GHOSTS, which I believe is
entirely university-based stories, some so nasty and sardonic that the book
got panned, as I recall, in the NYT by some other college prof.  I remember
JCO's answer to that pan review in the NYTBR letter's column the following
week: something to the effect that her book may offend those readers who put
the ego ahead of all else.   A lot of those stories are set in a ficticious
Canadian university and no doubt draw on JCO's observations at the University
of Windsor as well as Detroit College
and Syracuse.  UNHOLY LOVES was a lot of fun, compared to the heavier works
preceding it.  When I read it, I was particularly struck by the playful scene
at the end where the college-teacher heroine and the man she's in a love-hate
romance with pause a moment in their endless argument to watch her cat
playing on the rug -- it was such a light-hearted moment that it sticks in my
mind, and I think it was JCO's first use of cats
(which she apparently loves) in her fiction.  I myself am a bird-lover, which
is why I must put in a plug for Rosamond Smith's NEMESIS, in which canaries
play a major role and enjoy a happy ending. Cyrano



 From:  Cyranomish@aol.com
Date:  Sun, 2 Nov 1997 06:38:59 -0500 (EST)
 To:  jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  Re: You Must remember this

Hi, Heather.  I  reviewed YOU MUST REMEMBER THIS for newspapers in Boston and
Baltimore when it first came out.  It's quite a sexy book: Enid motel-hopping
with Uncle Felix.  Wasn't the ending funny!  The successful lovers in the
novel turn out to be good old Mom and Dad.  Now there's an ending you rarely
see in contemporary fiction.  I've often noted that in a lot of novels the
young heroine's mother is usually deceased before the action begins: it's as
if a woman can't be a heroine unless Mom's safely out of the picture.  Which
Morrison novel are you planning to discuss with YOU MUST REMEMBER THIS?  You
know both authors teach at Princeton.  I'm not up to date on Morrison, but I
believe she's still teaching there.  Cyrano



To: jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:  Morrison @ Princeton
From:  composer2@juno.com (David C. Chaudoir)
 Date:  Sun, 02 Nov 1997 12:16:59 EST

Morrison, according to my sources at Princeton, is still teaching there.
But, does anyone know the history of Morrison's formal training?

David



Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 13:10:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Jennifer Nash jnash@fas.harvard.edu
 To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  Re: Morrison @ Princeton

she is definitely still teaching at princeton.

i dont know much about her background - i know she was born in lorain,
ohio as chloe anthony wofford in 1931. she attended harvard and then
cornell where she wrote her thesis on virginia woolf and william faulkner.
since then, shes won the pulitzer (1988) the nat'l book critics circle
award (1978) and the nobel (1993).


- jen

"perhaps nature builds into us and into the world a sense of amnesia, and
maybe this is our saving grace as humans, our ability to seemingly forget
on cue."
- the amazing douglas coupland

On Sun, 2 Nov 1997, David C. Chaudoir wrote:

> Morrison, according to my sources at Princeton, is still teaching there.
> But, does anyone know the history of Morrison's formal training?
> 
> David
> 



From: Cyranomish@aol.com
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 14:03:54 -0500 (EST)
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Re: Morrison @ Princeton

Hi, David,  Morrison grew up in Lorrain, Ohio, and went to undergrad school
at Howard Univ. in Washington, DC.  Her PhD thesis -- at Yale, I think, was
on "suicide in the works of Virginia Woolf and Wm Faulkner.Cyrano



Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 14:45:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Jennifer Nash jnash@fas.harvard.edu
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Re: Morrison @ Princeton

sorry..i made that typo before - cyrano, you're right - howard not
harvard. 

- jen

"perhaps nature builds into us and into the world a sense of amnesia, and
maybe this is our saving grace as humans, our ability to seemingly forget
on cue."
- the amazing douglas coupland



Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 18:24:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Heather L Ormiston hormisto@mission.mvnc.edu
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Re: You Must remember this

        Yes, I guess that it is ironic that the old married couple turns
out to be the lovers in the end. I am comparing it with Morrison's The
Bluest Eye becasue they both deal with incest, although in very different
ways. It's not completely developed yet, but I am focusing on the thread
of violence that is contained within the sexuality of both novels, and how
it shapes the heroines of both novels. Do you see Enid as a victim? From
your phrase bed hopping it would seem that you don't, but I would be
interested to hear your take on it.
Heather



Date:  Tue, 4 Nov 1997 16:05:10 +0200
To: jco@usfca.edu
From:  Jakob Persson jakob_p@lubio.kult.lu.se
Subject: Re: You Must Remember This

Heather,

Thank you for bringing up You Must Remember This to discussion. I've been
meaning to do it for a long time.

I just finished reading You Must Remember This for the third time. I would
say it's probably my favorite JCO novel. The intimate and tragic story
about the Stevick family gets to me like few other stories and it's the
same thing every time I read it.
   About a year ago I wrote a big paper where I compared You Must Remember
This with the JCO novels Because It Is Bitter And Because It Is My Heart
and Foxfire. All three of them are set in the 1950's, which was my starting
point.

I've given a lot of thought to the relationship between Felix and Enid. For
me it raises the question: "What is love?" Is there love between Enid and
Felix? If it is not love, then what is it? Certainly it is not only pure
sexual desire. There is a strong bond between Enid and Felix that is not
about sex. After all, what would the relationship be like if Felix and Enid
were not relatives? Wouldn't that be love?
   In the novel, Enid and Felix don't know themselves what relationship
they  have. Enid thinks she's in love with Felix, but sometimes she hates
him. She's thrown between "I can't live without you, Felix" and "I hate
you, Felix". However, sometimes she seems to be in love with the concept of
being in love, and the target of her love just happens to be Felix. It's
Felix from the beginning so it's Felix to the end. It could have been
anybody. On the other hand, maybe it's Felix just because he is forbidden
and dangerous and makes Enid so much more dirty and rebellious.
   As for Felix, he is ahamed of the relationship and doesn't want to call
it love. He tries to keep Enid at a reasonable distance. However, he is
incredibly jealous and he throws gifts over Enid. It's obvious that she
means a lot more to him than sex.
   I find it difficult to see Enid as a total victim of Felix'. Sure, at
the Rideau Inn Felix steps over the limits and Enid is a victim of his
sexual desires, but after that it's Enid who pursues the relationship,
pursues it to the limit of suicide. By then I don't think she is a victim
of Felix'. She's rather the victim of her own mind, focusing all her life
on the concept of love and the concept of Felix. Felix gives in to Enid
after her suicide attempt, but who is to blame? Both Enid and Felix have
problems in relating to the normal world and I don't think of Enid and
Felix as victims of each other, but as victims of themselves and of the
surrounding society.

Well, that was some of my thougths on Enid and Felix. I look forward to
read other thoughts on the subject.

Jakob Persson, Sweden



Date:  Tue, 4 Nov 1997 10:46:12 -0500 (EST)
 From:  Jennifer Nash jnash@fas.harvard.edu
To:  jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:  Re: You Must Remember This

Jakob,

I really think that JCO's point in YMRT is what you stated - that they are
victims both of each other's minds and of the surrounding society. I think
that's a theme that she develops even more in American Appetites. 

- jen

"i'm working through the grammar of my fears."
- indigo girls



From: Doozer411@aol.com
Date:  Tue, 4 Nov 1997 11:50:32 -0500 (EST)
To:  jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:  You Must Remember This

Hi, fellow Oates fans- 
   I've been silent for a while because I've been so busy, but I've kept up
with the conversations.  You Must Remember This is my favorite and was my
first JCO novel, and I think it's a perfect example of Oates' portrayal of
passionate and usually violent love as the ultimate destroyer of souls. 
(this theme shows up in many of her other novels- The Rise of Life on Earth,
Solstice, and Expensive People, just to name three that have always stood out
in my mind) 
  My only problem with YMRT is that I find Enid's end to be somewhat
implausible- her transition from victimized (by herself, by society, by
Felix, by a combination of the three), young girl and self-assured,
ambitious, college woman comes too quickly and almost out of nowhere.  When I
think about this novel, I tend to ignore the positive ending (because I find
it so utterly unrealistic) and view Enid as the perpetual victim. 
  I'm very curious to know, does anyone else have this problem with the
novel?  What did you all think of Enid's end?
                                                                    -Lindsay



From:  Cyranomish@aol.com
 Date:   Tue, 4 Nov 1997 12:32:37 -0500 (EST)
To:  jco@usfca.edu
 Subject: Re: You Must Remember This

Hi Lindsay, The ending of YMRT is unusual.  Enid not only maintains good
grades, wins a scholarship, fools her parents during her stormy relationship
with Felix.  She also maintains a friendly social life with her high school
classmates.  It's almost too much.  I would have expected a girl that age to
become obsessed with her illicit affair and become totally isolated by it.
 Sometimes, in real life, you hear about people who have amazing secret lives
and somehow manage to keep all their secrets without breaking down.  Perhaps
Enid is one of these people.  I think she will be successful in college for a
while at least -- or maybe her breakdown will come later as she confronts the
lonliness of college life away from her family and Felix.  One wonders what
kinds of new friendships she will make in school to replace the old ones at
home.  But, as Dostoevsky wrote at the end of Crime and Punishment, "that
would make the subject of another story; our present story is ended." Cyrano



Date:  Tue, 4 Nov 1997 10:09:38 -0800 (PST)
From:  Erlome erl@efn.org
To:  jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  Gothic series

In the afterword to "Mysteries of Winterthurn" JCO said there were two
further works in the series following "Bellefleur," "Bloodsmoor," and
"Winterthurn," totalling five.  Does anyone know why they were never 
published and whether there is any intention of publishing them ?  



From: Cyranomish@aol.com
 Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 13:24:25 -0500 (EST)
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  Re: You Must Remember This

Hi, Jakob, I like your anaylsis of Enid and Felix being victims -- not of
each other -- but of their own thinking and the times they live in.  JCO has
always asked that we examine the way in which her characters make their own
choices and act on limited information,
just as people do in real life.  Do you live in Stockholm?  I'll be visiting
there next month.
Perhaps we can discuss Oates-lore.  Is there any JCO book you haven't been
able to obtain in Sweden?  Perhaps I could bring you a copy.  Cyrano



Date:  Tue, 4 Nov 1997 13:45:12 -0500 (EST)
 From:  Jennifer Nash jnash@fas.harvard.edu
To:  jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:   Re: You Must Remember This

linds --

hi :) it's kind of odd because i havent looked at YMRT in a long time
because it was the first jco i ever read and i left it at home. but i
recently read man crazy and loved it except for the ending which i found
almost too simplistic. i think jco is in a difficult situation because she
creates enormously complex characters and has to sustain them. at the same
time, she has to appeall to the public - whenever i tell people i love jco
i get comments like "oh, she's so esoteric." in that sense, she has to
battle to maintain the complexity of her characters and not be too
complex and esoteric. anyway, i guess i'm not really answering the
question but those are my thoughts on that. 

- jen

"i'm working through the grammar of my fears."
- indigo girls



Date: Tue, 4 Nov 97 14:43:43 CST
From: "Frank Malgesini" fmalgesi@uachih.uach.mx
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: victims of their own minds


This is the typical situation in a Joyce Carol Oates story. Characters 
slowly learn to control their environment but they are nearly always 
betrayed finally by their own minds. I remember more than twenty five years 
ago when I read my first book, The Wheel of Love, noticing that this 
sequence is repeated in nearly every story in the book. Convalescing seems 
to me to be a simple treatment of a process that most characters go 
through throughout the short story collections. In Convalescing the 
protagonist has amnesia but the mental collapse that he has experienced is 
seen over and over in characters who have no auto accidents or amnesia to 
blame for their transformations.

The reimaginings of Kafka`s Metamorphosis that occur in different 
collections of her short stories also deal with the same themes. Another 
symbolic treatment of it is The Brain of Dr. Vicente from The Poisoned 
Kiss. In the first novel by Oates that I read, them, we see the process 
happening cyclically as the characters work their way toward some sort of 
balance and then collapse over and over. The Garden of Earthly Delights is 
another example where the protagonist slowly builds a life and then fails 
because of the betrayal of the mind.

As Dr. Vicente learned, we can consider all the factors in our environment 
and we can control them but in the end we cannot control our own minds.

Frank Malgesini 
fmalgesi@uach.mx
Facultad de Filosofia y Letras
Universidad Autonoma de Chihuahua



From: Cyranomish@aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 18:14:24 -0500 (EST)
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Re: You Must Remember This


lins, the ending of MAN CRAZY was perplexing because we don't know a thing
about Ingrid's new boy friend.  Is he a compassionate, gentle man?  Or is he
another version of her mean father?  When she goes to visit her mother Chloe
in the last chapter, she's driving a borrowed car -- possibly her boy
friend's car.  MAN CRAZY seems to be about how the heroine's messed-up family
warps her own life.  Has she somehow worked through that handicap and found a
decent partner to make a new life with?  JCO leaves that a mystery: we have
to take Ingrid's word for it that she's going to marry her former therapist.
 I wonder whether the main issue in MAN CRAZY isn't really Ingrid's
relationship with her mother?  The concluding image of the tree that
continues to grow even though it has been knocked down, suggests that whether
Ingrid's new life is one we'd approve of or not approve of ... she will
continue to strive for the light, for the balance in her life that Frank was
talking about just now. Cyrano



Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 18:16:44 +0200
To: jco@usfca.edu
From: Jakob Persson jakob_p@lubio.kult.lu.se
Subject: Re: You Must Remember This

Hi Lindsay,
I have a few thoughts about the ending of YMRT.
   I used to think that to leave Port Oriskany and go to college would be
like a new life for Enid, she would forget the past, Felix and everything,
just like she wants to. Although I'd like to imagine a young and strong and
happy Enid,I agree that it is an ending that feels unrealistic. Now I have
another theory, which I myself find much more plausible (although not as
uplifting): Enid's happiness in the end is just for the moment. On the
surface, the change in her does seem great, but has she really changed as
much as she wants to imagine? She seems to be very happy during her visit
at the college, but she is also haunted by thoughts like "Murderer, you
don't deserve this". It's clear that Felix and the abortion isn't out of
her head yet and somehow I find it difficult to believe that they ever will
be. To leave Port Oriskany physically is not equal to leave it mentally.

I've read an article (I've forgotten by whom) arguing that Enid could go on
only if she kept all memories instead of suppressing them. Suppressing them
would be impossible. This also gives a new meaning to the title of the
book: it's not only the title of a song, but an encouragement to Enid: to
live, she must remember the things that have happened. Considering the way
she thinks and acts in the novel, I think one way for Enid to deal with the
memories is to keep them while at the same time thinking of herself as a
another Enid completely detached from the teen-age Port Oriskany Enid. But
even that trick of the mind is not enough to get Enid 'free'. I can imagine
a grown-up Enid in a lot of different ways, but it is always a woman with a
never-disappearing sorrow hidden deep inside her.

Jakob



To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Man Crazy
From: composer2@juno.com (David C. Chaudoir)
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 12:32:18 EST

I did not think MAN CRAZY was good at all.  I could barely get through it
-- but still, it was Oates, and it is better than half of the trash being
published daily.

David



Date: Wed, 5 Nov 97 13:05:03 CST
From: "Frank Malgesini" fmalgesi@uachih.uach.mx
To: jco@usfca.edu

Many years ago I read a story from an Oates collection about an elderly 
lady who had been in a coma since the 1920s I think. She has just awakened 
and is remembering a boating accident that had caused her coma and other 
circumstances of her prior life. She wants to attract the attention of a 
doctor or nurse but no one pays attention to her. Somebody says something 
about coma patients sometimes regaining consciousness just before they die 
and someone else answers that with this one its been too long and then they 
leave the room.

I can`t find the story in any of my collections of Oates stories so I must 
have checked the book out from a library. Does anyone know the story? If 
so can you tell me what collection it is included in? Thank you for your 
help.

Frank Malgesini 
fmalgesi@uach.mx
Facultad de Filosofia y Letras
Universidad Autonoma de Chihuahua



Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 14:12:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Jennifer Nash jnash@fas.harvard.edu
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Re: Man Crazy


david,

i'm curious - why didn't you like man crazy? for me, the book was really
enjoyable until the ending....

- jen

"i'm working through the grammar of my fears."
- indigo girls

On Wed, 5 Nov 1997, David C. Chaudoir wrote:

> I did not think MAN CRAZY was good at all.  I could barely get through it
> -- but still, it was Oates, and it is better than half of the trash being
> published daily.
> 
> David
> 



Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 17:46:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Jennifer Nash jnash@fas.harvard.edu
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: The Rise of Life on Earth


Hi all,

I just finished reading The Rise of Life on Earth  - I am completely
blown away and still sorting it out in my own mind. I am curious about
what others thought about the book and the title. I relate it to Zombie. 
Zombie, because once again, JCO locks the reader into the
thought process of someone else, the intense vulnerability of Kathleen is
evident. A few days ago, someone posted how Oates' characters are victims
of the society that surrounds them, and their own minds. I definitely feel
that way about this book. I would love to hear how others reacted to this
novel.

- jen

"it feels so funny to be free."
- indigo girls



To:  jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Re: Man Crazy
From:  composer2@juno.com (David C. Chaudoir)
 Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 20:52:05 EST

most everything I didn't like -- i thought, when reading it, that oates
had been down this road before.  this wasn't new territory, she wasn't
breaking ground -- it was a rut.

david



To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  Re: The Rise of Life on Earth
 From: composer2@juno.com (David C. Chaudoir)
Date:  Wed, 05 Nov 1997 21:49:35 EST

Jen--
I am trying to place that book in my mind -- is it rather short with a
naked woman on the cover?  Titles are running through my head and I
cannot keep them straight.

David



Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 22:10:48 -0500 (EST)
From:  Jennifer Nash jnash@fas.harvard.edu
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  Re: The Rise of Life on Earth

david,

yeah, short book with a picture by hopper....
i know, i can't keep titles straight either.

- jen

"i'm working through the grammar of my fears."
- indigo girls



To:  jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:  Oates' Obsessions
From:  composer2@juno.com (David C. Chaudoir)
Date: Wed, 05 Nov 1997 22:56:21 EST

Yeah -- the hopper picture.  She is big on art, Oates is.  It sees she
gets obsessive about thing like that -- boxing led to ON BOXING and art
led to GEORGE BELLOWS, so who know what her next obsession will be? 
(let's not forget cats -- she and Daniel Halpern, the wonderful poet,
edited an anthology on CATS).

David



Date:  Wed, 5 Nov 1997 23:26:38 -0500 (EST)
From:  Jennifer Nash jnash@fas.harvard.edu
To:  jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:  Re: Oates' Obsessions

david,

i think that's really interesting - i think the choice of hopper for the
cover of the rise of life on earth is really fascinating because hopper's
paintings usually deal with the themes of human isolation and he usually
uses that greenish glow to symbolize that (ie. his famous painting
nighthawks) - thats really cool!

- jen

"i'm working through the grammar of my fears."
- indigo girls



From: Doozer411@aol.com
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 11:14:48 -0500 (EST)
To:  jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Re: The Rise of Life on Earth

Jen-
:) Hi! So you've finally read The Rise.  (that was in my focus paper, you
know- along with YMRT and Solstice) Anyway, after finishing The Rise, I had
to remain seated in my room for around ten minutes, I was so blown away by
Kathleen's final actions.  I found this book to be another example of one of
Oates' typical isolated and "hungry" women.  It's really very sad when you
think about it.  I mean, here's a woman who craves human contact so deeply
that she's willing to accept whatever form of it is given to her- even if
it's violent and meaningless.  She accepts being kissed and then called "Cow
Cunt" all in the same breath because she's been deprived of love and
affection her whole life.  This book, though shorter than most of Oates',
gave me the chills.
                                                                -Lindsay  



Date:  Thu, 06 Nov 97 10:57:17 CDT
From:   "Nancy Hunter" nhunter@fsc.follett.com
To:  jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Re[2]: The Rise of Life on Earth

     Hello-
     I usually read this list without participating, but this time I had to 
     reply. I have read a few stories and novels by JCO, The Rise being one 
     of them. I find (so far) that I have to "take a break" and let it all 
     "sink in" after reading anything by JCO. Her work really does give me 
     the chills. I think, for me at least, it is the way she takes you 
     inside the heads of her characters. You begin to think like them, to 
     understand them, to rationalize like them, so when you finally finish, 
     you have to take a breath and shake off the characters identity. I'm 
     not much of a writer, so, I,m having trouble decribing the emotions 
     she brings out when I read her work. It's just nice to know I'm not 
     the only one who has to take a breather after finishing one of her 
     novels.
     Nancy



Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 14:06:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Jennifer Nash jnash@fas.harvard.edu
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Re: Re[2]: The Rise of Life on Earth

nancy -

i totally agree -- after reading the rise i sat in my room, shaking,
because jco puts you in kathleen's head, you possess her hungers, her
longings, her desires, and it is so scary when you turn to the last page
and are suddenly thrown back into reality forcing to grapple with the way
in which you have just seen the world.

- jen

"i'm working through the grammar of my fears."
- indigo girls



Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 14:11:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Jennifer Nash jnash@fas.harvard.edu
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Re: The Rise of Life on Earth


Linds,

The same idea goes for Foxfire too (I'm stretching the meory here -- so if
if I mix up names, I'm sorry), Legs has been denied any sort of true
family love and stability her entire life hence her intense hunger and
longing for various kinds of revenge. I hope all is well with you,
Lindsay. Write soon.

- jen

"i'm working through the grammar of my fears."
- indigo girls



From: Ehaggar@aol.com
 Date:  Thu, 6 Nov 1997 18:23:07 -0500 (EST)
 To:  jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:  Re: The Rise of Life on Earth

This is kind of a general statement----I truly disliked RISE OF LIFE ON EARTH
for many of the same reasons that I disliked ZOMBIE---both books get two
thirds of their materials from already published handbooks, one on abortions,
another on brain surgery.  A few pages of each is all that is needed to
establish the realism if that is what is needed---Oates is WAY too good a
writer to be doing that sort of thing.

Ellen Haggar



From:  Ehaggar@aol.com
Date:  Thu, 6 Nov 1997 18:32:24 -0500 (EST)
To:  jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Re: Oates' Obsessions

Re the book edited by Halpern and Oates on CATS---one of her best short
stories is in included, called "The White Cat"----I predict cat lovers AND
cat haters will be crazy about it---let me know what you think of it!

Ellen Haggar



Date:  Thu, 6 Nov 1997 18:55:48 -0500 (EST)
 From:  Jennifer Nash jnash@fas.harvard.edu
To: jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:  Re: The Rise of Life on Earth

ellen,

i think jco does borrow a lot from handbooks etc but i think what makes
her an incredible writer is how she integrates them into the text both to
add a sense of reality and to help the reader get into the thought process
of the protagonist.
the way kathleen recites nursing procedures and then integrates other 
thoughts helps the reader engross himself/herself in kathleen's
thought process. it also gives the characters a sort of three
dimensionality, that their minds function as ours do.

i also think other authors use this technique to help
the reader get a glimpse of how the speaker's mind functions - like
faulkner in as i lay dying with cash. i actually think it's a really
effective technique which has purposes beyond simply establishing the
realism of the text. i'd love to know what everyone else thinks of my
somewhat rambly thoughts :)

- jen

"i'm working through the grammar of my fears."
- indigo girls



From:  RJohn713@aol.com
 Date:  Thu, 6 Nov 1997 21:48:27 -0500 (EST)
To:  jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  Re: Gothic series

JCO is currently revising one of the remaining Gothic novels, 'MY HEART LAID
BARE,' for possible (not definite) 1998 publication.

Greg



From:  Cyranomish@aol.com
Date:  Thu, 6 Nov 1997 22:23:11 -0500 (EST)
To:  jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  Re: The Rise of Life on Earth

I've always classified RISE OF LIFE ON EARTH with ZOMBIE and a mid-1970s work
TRIUMPH OF THE SPIDER MONKEY in that they are  relatively brief, intense,
inside looks at a sociopath who has been brutalized in childhood and has
consequently developed a brutal system of getting along in life. (The
violence in the ZOMBIE protagonist's family background is more subtle than
that of the other two novels.) In all three cases, the protagonist "gets
away" with his or her crimes during the course of the novel: homocide as a
coping strategy.   It's a disturbing trio of books, not my favorites but
vital to getting a handle on JCO's worldview. Cyrano



From: Cyranomish@aol.com
 Date:  Sat, 8 Nov 1997 07:54:13 -0500 (EST)
To:  jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:  Re: Greg's JCO biography

Hi, Greg. Thanks for that welcome news about MY HEART LAID BARE.  It won't be
long until your biography of JCO will be on the stands.  What I'm most
curious to read about is her teen-age years.  That and information about her
family.  I heard a strange rumor several years ago, which I hope your book
will resolve.  I was at a party and was introduced to a woman who was a
secretary in one of the academic departments at Princeton.  I asked whether
she knew any good JCO stories.  Her reply was that there really wasn't much
gossip because JCO leads a quiet life and lives near campus with her husband
and son.  I said --- whoa! -- JCO has always said in interview that she has
no children.  The secretary -- who wasn't a fan and only knew JCO as one of
the major figures connected with Princeton -- said Well, all she knew was
that JCO's son attended Princeton, as an undergraduate.  She was so
matter-of-fact about it that I decided either she had JCO mixed up with some
other Princeton notable or ... there's a whole part of her life that JCO has
decided to withhold from her reading public for reasons of her own. JCO 's
fiction often deals with the subject of rumors and misinformation -- how they
are a kind of communal form of fiction-writing.  Perhaps she would be amused
by this one. Cyrano


Date: Sat, 08 Nov 1997 21:33:27 -0500
 From:  "Thomas A. Hulslander" t-hulslander@top.monad.net
To:  jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:  Re: Greg's JCO biography

I can't wait to read the JCO bio., either.  That rumor about a son is a
first, for me, anyway!



From: di@fishnet.net
Date: Sun, 09 Nov 1997 18:45:21 -0700
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Where are you going...

Does anybody have an idea about what song JCO makes reference to in "Where are 
You Going, Where Have You Been?" The line is, "...the echo of a song from last 
year, about a girl rushing into her boyfriend's arms and coming home again-" 
Just curious.



From:  Ehaggar@aol.com
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 22:47:05 -0500 (EST)
To:  jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:  Re: Where are you going...

Re the song referred to in the JCO Oates "Where are you going, etc"  --- I
think she is talking about a song called "Ebb Tide" which has lyrics about
the sea rushing to the shore and ends up "So I rush/To your arms/  "  and
ends up "I'm home".  It is very moony, very corny---someone like Connie would
have loved it!

Cheers

Ellen Haggar



To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject:   JCO's SON
 From:  composer2@juno.com (David C. Chaudoir)
Date:  Sun, 09 Nov 1997 23:36:25 EST


Why wouldn't JCO have a son?  Perhaps it she just never shared it with
the general public-- I mean, after all, the paparazzi don't follow her
around and who really cares about authors is most people's attitudes (not
ours, obviously) and also none of her jacket blurbs say she lives w/her
husband Raymond Smith, they just say she teaches at Princeton.  She is
not the only major figure there -- Morrison is there, too, and others.  I
am trying to think of what writers are at what colleges presently:
New York University has = EL Doctorow, Sharon Olds
Univ. of Miami Ohio has = Gerald Early (I think)
Syracuse Un used to have (? now) = Stephen Dobyns
Pinckney Benedict (former JCO spawn) = Hope College (MI)
Western Michigan U has = Stuart Dybek
Iowa = Jane Smiley
can anyone help me out here with more... thnx.

David



To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  Ebb Tide
From:  composer2@juno.com (David C. Chaudoir)
Date: Sun, 09 Nov 1997 23:36:25 EST

EBB TIDE could be it...

I didn't know JCO's biographer was on w/us now.  I've been across the
country to Seattle on business, and haven't been keeping up.  What's
goin' on?  


David



From:  Ehaggar@aol.com
 Date:  Mon, 10 Nov 1997 12:36:18 -0500 (EST)
 To:  jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  Re: JCO's SON

Hi David

Re: the JCO child thing---until very recently all of her book jackets said
that she lived with her husband, Raymond Smith, etc, etc, and none of her
jackets have ever mentioned a son---also none of the chronologies of her life
mention children---if she does indeed have a son, that would be surprising.
 I wonder if the story from the secretary got confused----Oates DOES have an
autistic sister about whom she is very protective........I, too, am
fascinated that Greg Johnson, JCO's biographer may be online with us--what
fun!

Ellen Haggar



From: LoriLamb@aol.com
Date:  Mon, 10 Nov 1997 12:44:07 -0500 (EST)
To: jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:  Re: The Rise of Life on Earth

In response to what Ellen wrote, I disagree.  Admittedly, the sections of
JCO's books that Ellen mentions do seem rather technical--at odds with the
texts as a whole.  However, I think that these sections are hardly included
as mere "filler."  To my mind, these sections provide a counterpart to the
lawlessness of the characters (ex.  Quentin, Kathleen).  The technical
sections are kind of the "rules," and I find it appropriate, if somewhat
warped (which is actually fitting regarding the mentality of these
characters), that these characters have the capacity to memorize these
specific "rules" while the "rules" of society at large (that you don't kill
people, for example) have escaped them.  Also, the callousness with which
they memorize these grotesque procedures (abortion, lobotomy) is also
fitting.  I cannot read the abortion scene in ROL without squirming--it is
horrific.

I agree with Jen that these kind of sections provide a kind of realism that
is appropriate to the character.  

LL



To: jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:   Re: JCO's SON
From:  composer2@juno.com (David C. Chaudoir)
Date:  Mon, 10 Nov 1997 19:39:19 EST

I heard JCO at very recent lecture (well, Sept.) and she actually
publicly talked about her sister at length for quite a while -- I was
shocked, she even read an unpublished poem about her! Ahh!
But just seeing how JCO works, it seems improbable that she would in fact
have a son.  As great as she is, she probably has little time for kids.

David



Date:   Tue, 11 Nov 1997 11:43:40 -0500
  To:  jco@usfca.edu
From:    "CinemaSource, Inc." kpetras@cinema-source.com
 Subject:  JCO's sister

Hello David,

Two years ago I hosted JCO at my college for a reading of her poetry.  I
had the distinct pleasure of spending several hours with her talking about
publishing, James Joyce, etc.  I sound like I'm bragging, but that night
was truly the greatest of my life.

During her reading & question and answer period, she discussed her sister
at length.  There was not a dry eye in the auditorium.  At the time she
said that she would eventually publish the poem, but she was sure.  Her
book of poetry that was published last year contained many of the poems
from her reading, but it did not include the poem about her sister.
Perhaps she decided to keep it for later publication.

Karen Petras



From: Cyranomish@aol.com
 Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 10:18:47 -0500 (EST)
 To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject:   Re: JCO's sister

Hello, David.  I started hearing about JCO's sister about 10 years ago.  Wish
I'd been to the talk to hear the poem about her.  I suppose it will
eventually be published.  Do you remember what she had to say about her
sister?  Cyrano



From:  RJohn713@aol.com
Date:  Tue, 11 Nov 1997 10:40:14 -0500 (EST)
To:  jco@usfca.edu
Subject:   Re: Greg's JCO biography

If JCO does have a son, she declined to inform me.  :)  She called Richard
Everett of EXPENSIVE PEOPLE a fantasy of motherhood who represented a good
reason for having her own son remain "unborn, unconceived."  She has also
said that except for her love of cats, she is virtually lacking in the
maternal instinct.

Greg



To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: JCO's sister/James Dickey's death
From: composer2@juno.com (David C. Chaudoir)
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 1997 22:28:50 EST


To All Inquisitors on JCO's sister:

She basically spoke on the heartache of having someone who had never
spoke a word in her life, and really didn't always know what was
happening to her, be so similar in looks and perhaps personality as she
was.  It came up in the discussion about how ironic it was that JCO had
gone on to be one of the most prolific writers of our century, and yet
her sister never uttered a word.  Very intriguing.

Also, Oates mentioned that she had been asked several time to write on
autism for scholarly books and periodicals and so on, but each time she
started to write about it, she had to stop because it was too close to
her -- just TOO personal.

She made no indication that the poem would ever be published (or maybe it
had been published in a literary review somewhere -- not collected in a
book).  I was disappointed she read so much poetry because I am not a big
JCO-poetry fan; I wish she had talked more on her writing process and
publishing and creativity than just reading her poems.  But still, of
course, it was a fabulous lecture.

David

p.s. -- I was just struck with horrible news today -- that my beloved
poet, James Dickey, passed away in January of this year.  That saddens me
greatly -- I wish I would have known back then.  What a master he was --
now, as I read some of his poems today, I felt almost a personal loss, an
almost grieving for him.  It just shows how close we get to authors, and
what a personal craft writing is.  DC

Hope this helps any.

Maintained by Randy Souther
Last updated 11-28-97
Send comments and suggestions to Randy Souther